ypsi~dixit

How about the article in the AA News yesterday about Chelsea residents that want walnut trees cut down because they say the falling husks are a mess and danger. What total crap.

What about messy babies? Or old drooling people? Do we get "rid" of them because they inconvienince us sometimes?

I really though they had gone bananas.

Walnut trees are great for so many reasons. Three weeks of husks doesn't mean we should declare jihad on walnut trees.

I guess if there is a bumper crop of bluegills in a Chelsea Lake one summer we should drain the lake.

http://www.mlive.com/news/aanews/index.ssf?/base/news-19/1159454662224700.xml&coll=2

I'll be double-dipped. That is just plumb, flat ridiculous. What a whiner! What a prima donna!

There's a big walnut near the Thompson Bldg. I think the husks are great. They smell wonderful--they are the smell of fall. I think some fiber artists use the husks to make a brown dye.

Y'know, nature was not created for the convenience of idiots. We're subservient to it. We should be grateful for the gift of being able to smell a walnut husk and enjoy the tree instead of seeking its destruction.

This guy should move his home to the Meijer's parking lot. The trees there aren't as messy.

Sheesh.

Yeah, that's right--it's just a couple weeks a year. Poor Mr. Chelsea. Soooo inconvenienced.

Brother.

I wonder how much waste or pollution Mr. Chelsea creates every day. When he drives his car. Operates his leaf blower. Watches his plasma TV. Sprays poisons on his lawn. Heats his 3,000-square-foot McMansion to 85 degrees.

At any rate. Boy, that story got under my skin.

When its cut down we can have a woodworker make a stock out of it and put the homeowner in it in the town square. (The sunny town square)

I have a number of black walnuts on my property, and I love them. They are a very majestic tree, especially the mature ones. They are pretty messy, but it's only once a year, and besides the maples are pretty messy too when their helicopters take wing. The only downside of the walnuts (to my mind) is that their fruit is quite poisonous to many other plants, and few other things can grow under their driplines.

Stocks: great idea! Hahaha.
Makes me want to donate to the Arbor Day Fund.

The armies of husk burying squirrels engirth me.
And I engirth them.

Tom: Indeed, they are truly majestic and have much character. Yep, that's true, maples are messy and if I had a dime for every volunteer elm that sprouted in my yard thanks to a ridiculously fertile elm in my neighbor's yard, I'd retire right now.

You are right of course that walnuts poison other plants. From here:

"The roots of Black Walnut (Juglans nigra L.) and Butternut (Juglans cinerea L.) produce a substance known as juglone (5-hydroxy-alphanapthaquinone)....Many plants such as tomato, potato, blackberry, blueberry, azalea, mountain laurel, rhododendron, red pine and apple may be injured or killed within one to two months of growth within the root zone of these trees. The toxic zone from a mature tree occurs on average in a 50 to 60 foot radius from the trunk, but can be up to 80 feet."

Confederate uniforms were often dyed with dye made from walnut husks. Not a very good dye,though,as the clothing would fade and change color rapidly in sunlight.
I've been planting them on my place-veeeerrrry slow growing.

They will not bury husks till I give them husks, respond to them,
And discorrupt them, and charge them full with the charge of the fall.

Doug: That is fascinating. And (bell rings in head) didn't the Confederates use butternuts for the same reason?

(couldn't resist checking): Yep.

"Regiments of Confederate soldiers used butternut dye to color their clothing, explaining why the were referred to as “Butternuts.”

Within there runs sap,
The same old sap!
The same bronze-running sap!
There swells and jets a branch—there all passions, desires, reachings, aspirations;
Do you think they are not there because they are not express’d in parlors and lecture-rooms?

The walnut's trunk is sacred, and the oak's trunk is sacred;
No matter which tree it is, it is sacred;
Is it a pest? Is it one of the dull-faced immigrants just landed on the wharf?
Each belongs here or anywhere, just as much as the Chelsean just as much as you;
Each tree has it's place in the procession.

This is not only one tree, this the father of walnuts who shall be
walnuts in their turns,
In it the start of populous forests and rich republics,
Of him countless immortal husks with countless embodiments and
enjoyments.

How do you know who shall come from the offspring of his offspring
through the centuries?
(Who might you find you have come from yourself, if you could trace
back through the centuries?)

My lot lines have a few nice, big walnuts. On balance, I like having them there, but there are a few problems:

* Shade, and juglone poisoning, limit what I can grow in my yard. String beans seemed to do fine. Peppers seemed to do okay. Cucumbers: flat out dead. Tomatoes: grew too slowly for any fruit to ever ripen.

* Black walnuts are one of the most acute triggers for sufferers of tree pollen allergies. Like me.

Hm. Funny about the cukes. Wonder why they're more sensitive. Didn't know that about the allergy-causing.

Walnut smells heavenly when burned.

I bet it would, judging by how lovely I think the husks smell--tangy and spicy. Sometimes I keep one around just to smell it once in a while.

I think the juglone's bad rap is exaggerated as far as poisoning the soil goes. It seems entirely arbitrary what one source says "will not grow" vs. another. Like y'all I've heard that nightshades won't grow (like tomatoes) but beans will. However, I live in a walnut grove and my tomatoes have grown fine. I get bumper crops of beans. Whereas, under my neighbors' walnut, the same variety of beans from the same catalog planted the same time failed and hardly produced. I think you probably have to seduce the walnut with sweet words and sacrifices in order to garner their gardening cooperation. That's what I do.

I mix juglone with bird flu and eat it on toast.

Lisele, on the other hand I think you could grow a gardenia in a bucket of concrete, so...no wonder you don't have problems.

Thanks for the link to a funny article. "Green bombs"...a hazard to people or cars who might get hit in the head by a walnut...too ridiculous.

Maybe they should offer the walnuts free (via freecycle?) to any takers? They are probably some earthy types in the area who could use the husks for dye and someone might be willing to crack the nuts for the meat. My dad used to spread the nuts all over our driveway and run over them to crack them. I was embarrassed by the nuts spread all over pieces of cardboard in high school, but think it's rather clever now.

Sandy! Brilliant idea!!!

I was thinking of doing the same with my remaining flowers so people could make-a-bouquet, but I thought maybe people would think that was too weird.

Do you know the two-nuts-on-a-seam cracking trick?

When my Mom was a girl in Holland she and her sibs used to crack nuts in the hinge-end of doorframes, driving my Opa and Oma crazy.

Do tell (two-nuts-on-a-seam).

Well, thanks for the sweet words, but I CAN'T grow a gardenia! Nor can I grow a bay tree!!! Cmon amanda, spill. Where did you get your living bay tree?

When I read that article, I was surprised that it was the mess from the walnuts that was the issue. The biggest complaint I've ever heard was about the toxicity to the soil.
My parents have lived on the same country acre for over 40 years and have always had a very large vegetable garden. Many years ago, the field behind their lot was planted as a black walnut farm. The trees are now 60-70 feet tall--who knows how far the roots extend?--but the garden is a shadow of its former self. Tomatoes, cucumbers, beans, and rhubarb are among the victims. If they grow, they sure don't thrive.
I think of the little roadside stand we used to have as children (sigh)...
And produce for me and my mooching siblings is no longer plentiful.

Doyleparty: Wow. That's a pretty drastic change. I hadn't known walnuts' toxins were that powerful.

Boy, do they sound beautiful, though, at 70 feet tall.

I like radon, black mold, and asbestos on my toast.

Lisele: Here goes. This is gonna test my powers of description...

Take two walnuts. Hold them in front of you. Point both walnuts' sharp tips towards you. Orient them so that their seams are horizontal, like the equator.

Rotate one nut 90 degrees up, so that the tip is now pointing not at you but straight up. Move the nuts together. The walnut seams should be perpendicular where they touch.

Holding the nuts in this formation, wrap your hands around them and SQUEEZE!

I usually then get the nutcracker as the next step, since the nuts either 1. rocket out of my grip and shoot bulletlike towards someone's eye or 2. reduce me to a panting failure.

But there won't be any nutcrackers in post-apocalyptic Ypsilanti, so "I'd better get cracking." :D

I called my dad to verify before I posted. He sounded very sad. He didn't mention the beauty of the trees. Can't say as I blame him. There was already a lovely forested backdrop in place before the walnut trees came along.
Those trees also ruined a fine sledding/tobogganing hill we used to play on. But now I'm sounding petulant.

Anonymous: That sounds like Marmite! Or the antique Nutella waaay back in the lightless depths of my fridge...(gotta clean it this weekend!)

Doyleparty: Hm. Considering the trees caused a real and measurable damage to your father's property, I have to wonder if anyone has ever sued a walnut grower. I mean, the effect of the trees is analogous to someone pouring a bottle of bleach on one's garden once a week, in a way.

We have several black walnuts in our back yard. They are beautiful trees that leaf out late (so spring bulbs grow well under them) and they have lovely, dappeldy golden leaves in the fall. It isn't true that "nothing grows under walnuts," we have a jungle of plants that grow extraordinarily well (tulips, daffodils, lily-of-the-valley, bloodroot, waterleaf, hostas, poppies, raspberries, phlox, goldenrod, lilac, mulberry, ivy, asters, iris, strawberries, daylilies, etc.). Walnuts are just picky about who they want to live with. I can sympathize. You can actually harvest your black walnuts and get paid for them! Hammonds Black Walnut company pays people for their walnuts when you take them to one of their drop-off stations. More information is on their web site. We keep meaning to drop ours off, but we need a truck to gather them into. You certainly won't get rich, or even make your gas money unless you have a truck, but it is still a fun thing to do. The nut meats are processed and sold and the hulls are so hard they are used in industrial applications for sanding. Doyleparty, the roots will extend out about as far as the trees are tall. So 60-70 feet in your parent's case. Walnuts don't kill things for miles around. The trees are beautiful and very sturdy, you can eat the nuts, harvest them for money, use them for dye, or just have fun throwing 'em at your siblings/spouse/neighbors. We love ours!

That does sound like fun, to gather and turn in the nuts.

I had no idea the hulls were used in industrial applications; that's fascinating. From here:

"The ground shells of black walnut have industrial applications including use as a nonslip agent in automobile tires, as an air pressure propellant in strip paints, and as a filtering agent for scrubbers in smoke stacks. The automobile industry uses the ground shell products to deburr precision gears, and the airline industry uses the ground shells to clean jet engines (Williams, 1990)."

Laura: My parents are not the type to pursue something legal, whether or not they could. They just live with it, as does my uncle just up the road. I like the bleach analogy.

I don't know if the trees are ever to be harvested, or when. It doesn't really seem fair to plant something so close to someone else's property when it directly impacts them. But that's not my battle to fight.

Juliew: Yes, there is still grass growing in the space between the withered garden and the house. And some nice maples.

Doyleparty: Hmm, yes, it does seem the grower should make a belt of grass around the orchard before the land abuts onto a neighbor's. Ah well.

Gathering and turning in the nuts does sound like fun, but the closest drop-off station referenced by Juliew is in Litchfield (which I had never even heard of until now) between Jackson and Coldwater!

Well.....you could make it a fun fall road trip! Friends (one with a truck) could gather to pick up all the nuts at two or three homes, and then next day pop some music in the CD player and head southwest! Visit an antique store or two on the way...and see if you can sweet-talk your way into a nut plant tour. I think it'd be fun! See some new country, meet people. Gather nuts! It could become an annual fall tradition.

I agree, I think it would make a fun fall trip. There are a few wineries between here and there and lots of cider and apples, antique stores, home-style restaurants, and beautiful fall colors. Plus knowing that you are contributing to a nationwide harvest that is one of the few still done by hand. I think it is kind of neat. Not sure my squirrels agree though ...

It would be a blast! Especially since you mentioned it's one of the few harvests still done by hand! That's cool. It would be fun to be a part of that. Plus the cider and wine and doughnuts....

When we visited Great Grandma in Brain-Dead Ohio, there was a flock of migrating starlings roosting in the trees nearby and around her house. Apparently they pass through every year, following the locusts. The boys and I had a fine time examining the empty locust cases and listening to the cacophony of the birds in the trees. Then, BOOM! A shotgun not 25 ft away jerked me out of my skin. Then another - BOOM! Some idiot in this SUBDIVISION was firing off a gun at these transient creatures! Apparently the weeks' worth of bird poop (WASHABLE for heaven's sake) was too much for them. They, that razed a field of flowers or a grove of trees to build their houses - the birds were here first!

So, then were the trees. Here long before us...and I bet long after.

Iss: Talk about idiotic. In a sub?!

Ohio was also the location where that widow paid rent for her rotary phone for a million years for tens of thousands of dollars.

Just sayin'.

Walnut wood can be pretty valuable. My grandparents' hundred year old grove of black walnut trees near Almost-Brain-Dead, IL was hit by a tornado in the late 70's, and several damaged trees were sold for $$$. I remember hearing about the theft of mature trees at isolated farms, too. I did some googling, though, and it appears that some walnut trees aren't worth much as timber - it depends on a lot of factors (see http://muextension.missouri.edu/explore/agguides/forestry/g05051.htm)

I've seen bags of walnut shells at our plant-I believe they are used for deburring purposes.

Interesting site Sandy. I know that is the joke in our neighborhood--that the black walnuts will fund all of our retirements. Our bad neighbor cut down two huge beautiful walnuts in order to build a garage. They brought in a portable mill and milled them right in the driveway. It was horrible to see them go (two 60+ foot trees provide a lot of shade for a neighborhood), but at least they didn't get chipped.

That *was* an interesting site! If you told me yesterday I'd read, with absorption and interest, a long paper detailing walnut timber sales, I would have been skeptical. :) I especially liked the picture detailing the various tree defects. Who knew there were so many? Though I have to find out the difference between a "conk" and a bump.

Just the thought of chipping up a walnut makes me shudder. At least they harvested the wood.

Doug: That's what I read online; that the hulls are used for deburring. Useful tree all around.

If only I could convince my neighbor to harvest the one behind his garage which shades my herb garden... and it's only getting bigger. But I agree with Juliew that many things grow well under walnuts. My hostas do. Also my baby paw-paws are doing well under there, my black cohosh, and my hydrangea!

Since my neighborhood is full of huge old walnuts, I have to learn to love 'em and get along with them. And the squirrels are planting more every day--two in the bed against my house have gotten a head start on me. GRRRR, I have GOT to get them out of there next spring!

Apparently the trait of releasing a substance that inhibits growth of other plants is pretty widespread in nature. I grew a mugwort that suppressed everything around it. Finally I had to take it out! IT was becoming my entire front garden.