ypsi~dixit

God, if they're like every chimp and macaque I've ever met, what they were really saying was, "Holy hell!! What the...? Do you think this means they won't give us any more marshmallows?!?! Are we going to have to eat bannanas?!?" and "WTF? !? I hate change! Change is bad! Help!"

That is interesting...Anna, may I ask did you work with research chimps in your work in neurobiology? What is that like? I'd be very curious to know.

I work exclusively with humans, but my best friend works with (squirrel) monkeys, another has a tamarin lab, and one of my collaborators has a macaque lab (all behavioral work, i.e., noninvasive, not neurobiology). In general, monkeys and chimps HATE change and novelty. If you grow a beard (well, if one were to grow one, probably if one were male), they lose their sh*t. If you move them from one housing situation to another, they scream for nights on end. If you change your hairstyle, they go nuts. If you put something in their cage that they don't recognise, they freak out. They're like me, in a way :)

Also, in general what I find odd/funny is that they have no sense of the "natural". For example, they prefer marshmallows and sugar cereal to food that's good for them (they get small amounts of junk food as rewards and will do almost anything for treats), contrary to what I would have thought. And the males have to be separated because they beat the hell out of each other, especially the ones at the bottom of the dominance heirarchy, it's not like dogs -- they do serious damage --and if you remove just the bottom one on the rung, they next one down gets it.

Most of the primates I've been around like doing experiments because what they're asked to do is intellectually challenging and they get treats. I'm glad I do not work with them, because in my gut I feel awful that they end up in cages, but intellectually, I'm not convinced that all of them have bad lives, especially since they're such hedonists and they have a longer life expectancy in captivity.

Anna: that is fascinating. Do you know if these apes were born in captivity, or captured from the wild? I'm betting the former. It seems to me that a good way to build up intolerance to change is to raise someone in a highly regulated environment with a strict routine, such as a lab. Do they spend their whole lives there? Do the apes have a larger play or outdoor area? Just curious. Very interesting.

I don't know of anyone who works with apes -- apes are almost all endagered, so I doubt there are many in labs... I'm not sure of the provenance of the chimps and monkeys I've met -- I think it's a mix. But one of my friends also works with monkeys in the wild (in addition to ones in her lab) on an island off of Puerto Rico -- she said that they're basically the same. They like her because she gives them marshmallows, so they come around looking for experiments to do. They don't like it when there's any sort of change in her appearance (or new research team members, etc.). They also didn't like it the time she brought *pink* marshmallow chicks instead of yellow ones because the pink ones were on sale after easter -- I'm pretty sure that their hatred of novelty is hard-wired.

Many of the macaques in the other lab are in their twenties, so some of those may have been captured. I think the younger ones were bred. Most labs do have a large play area. I don't know if they retire elsewhere when they get older, I don't think so because they don't like change, plus they know all the other monkeys and would miss them -- my guess is that they just hang out and don't do experiments when they get too old. I'll have to ask.

Also, they don't like patterns or stripes, so all of my monkey-research friends have wardrobes consisting almost entirely of solid, muted colors.

That is all fascinating; I didn't know any of that. Have you ever considered writing up your view of lab apes (I was using the term loosely to include the various primates you mentioned) for a magazine aimed at non-professionals not in the field? I'm sure many other people would also be fascinated to learn more about their lives.

Laura, thanks for that wonderful piece from the Times. I probably wouldn't have seen it otherwise.

Addiann: you are welcome. Wasn't it a great article? Raised all sorts of ethical considerations.

The stunning story of Linda Koebner's reunion with Swing and Doll really took me by surprise. Lovely piece of writing that. And excellent research in the whole thing I thought.

Addiann: Yes, I was struck by that reunion, too, considering that these are powerful, dangerous animals that could do serious harm to any human.